Virgina Tech Shooting!!!
- Thread starter PELLA
- Start date
Hmm I don't know since I don't have american news channels to know what they're saying but if you're refering to my post then I'll just say that I already expressed my condolences to the victims and faimilies.
Everybody should feel sorry, no doubt about that but if people don't "investigate" about it then we will hear about new victims.
Everybody should feel sorry, no doubt about that but if people don't "investigate" about it then we will hear about new victims.
http://www.roanoke.com/news/nrv/breaking/wb/113294
article that has a time line of events and is being updated as more information comes in
"He was said to have quarreled in a dormitory with his girlfriend, whom he believed had been seeing another man. A student adviser was called to sort out the row. But the killer produced a gun and shot dead both his girlfriend and the adviser.... "
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...tml?in_article_id=448955&in_page_id=1811&ct=5
"A Chinese man who arrived in the United States last year on a student visa.
The 24-year-old man arrived in San Francisco on United Airlines on Aug. 7 on a visa issued in Shanghai. Investigators have not linked him to any terrorist groups... "
http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/343354,vatech041607.articleprint
this was pulled from drudge
article that has a time line of events and is being updated as more information comes in
"He was said to have quarreled in a dormitory with his girlfriend, whom he believed had been seeing another man. A student adviser was called to sort out the row. But the killer produced a gun and shot dead both his girlfriend and the adviser.... "
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...tml?in_article_id=448955&in_page_id=1811&ct=5
"A Chinese man who arrived in the United States last year on a student visa.
The 24-year-old man arrived in San Francisco on United Airlines on Aug. 7 on a visa issued in Shanghai. Investigators have not linked him to any terrorist groups... "
http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/343354,vatech041607.articleprint
this was pulled from drudge
"Guns do not kill people, people kill people."
Every time a tragedy such as this occurs, some idiot pipes up with this argument.
Yes, people kill people... with guns. When guns are legally available or completely unregulated, they are made accessible to people who want to kill people.
Guns can be found in every country in the world. It's the countries that openly have guns in the community for one reason or another that shocking incidents such as these frequently occur in.
Every time a tragedy such as this occurs, some idiot pipes up with this argument.
Yes, people kill people... with guns. When guns are legally available or completely unregulated, they are made accessible to people who want to kill people.
Guns can be found in every country in the world. It's the countries that openly have guns in the community for one reason or another that shocking incidents such as these frequently occur in.
He was a 24 year-old Chinese national who was here on a student visa.
If that's the case, how'd he get the gun? Didn't think those here on a student visa were eligible to legally purchase a firearm... We obviously need a law prohibitting...umm...
Just think, he'd only been here 1 year and yet that was enough for our violent American culture to transform him into a gun-totting psychopath.
The Chief said, "weapons are not allowed on campus."
Apparantly nobody gave the gunman the memo. Perhaps they tried to inform him of their no weapons policy through the same system they used to warn their students of possible life threatening danger.
If that's the case, how'd he get the gun? Didn't think those here on a student visa were eligible to legally purchase a firearm... We obviously need a law prohibitting...umm...
Just think, he'd only been here 1 year and yet that was enough for our violent American culture to transform him into a gun-totting psychopath.
The Chief said, "weapons are not allowed on campus."
Apparantly nobody gave the gunman the memo. Perhaps they tried to inform him of their no weapons policy through the same system they used to warn their students of possible life threatening danger.
countries, including u.k. and australia, that have tried to regulate semi automatic hand guns and assult rifles have seen a negative impact with higher rates of illegal weapons in the county and higher crime rates
states in my country that have anti gun laws have higher crime rates involving guns than states that dont.
states in my country that have anti gun laws have higher crime rates involving guns than states that dont.
what do you mean it doesn't make sense? ofcourse it makes sense. firearms in the wrong hands are extremely dangerous. how many more times does this have to happen in your country for there to be changes made? that stuff you talk about, how the firearms will end up making their way into a country despite it being illegal - sure that's true. but not to this extreme, where in your country they are available in regular department stores, accessible to nearly anyone who is at a certain age. gun crimes in australia validate that argument - sure there are a few people who have guns here but we dont have young high school kids shooting up their schools.
please, by all means, tell me how easy it is to legally get a gun in this country much less a concealed weapons permit
look at other countries that have tried to regulate guns. look into it.
how often does a chinese student come over to the states and shoot random people? this is the first time ive heard of it
what changes would you suggest? a ban? only police and military should have guns?
you say it makes sense, but you can agree that illegal guns into the country would rise, but you then you say guns shouldnt get into the wrong hand because it would be dangerous
look at other countries that have tried to regulate guns. look into it.
how often does a chinese student come over to the states and shoot random people? this is the first time ive heard of it
what changes would you suggest? a ban? only police and military should have guns?
you say it makes sense, but you can agree that illegal guns into the country would rise, but you then you say guns shouldnt get into the wrong hand because it would be dangerous
for starters yes. anything that would minimise the availability of firearms to crazy teenagers. how many more times does this seriously have to happen before something is done about it? how did those teenagers get a hold of those firearms for the columbine massacre? australia should be used as an example.
columbine is a different situation. you ever wonder why the courts have the parents of the victims under a gag order? as i already stated, ive heard a radio interview with a girl who was best friends with one of the shooters in columbine. the dude was fucked due to his meds. where did he get his guns? home. he knew where his dad kept the key.
you would minimise the availability of firearms to crazy people. so the people are who arent crazy and are law abiding citizens should have to suffer?
the u.k. tried to do a ban on guns and crime went up. ive seen same stats for your country too.
Justice Department study:
* 3/5 of felons polled agreed that "a criminal is not going to mess around with a victim he knows is armed with a gun."28
* 74% of felons polled agreed that "one reason burglars avoid houses when people are at home is that they fear being shot during the crime."29
* 57% of felons polled agreed that "criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police."30
you would minimise the availability of firearms to crazy people. so the people are who arent crazy and are law abiding citizens should have to suffer?
the u.k. tried to do a ban on guns and crime went up. ive seen same stats for your country too.
Justice Department study:
* 3/5 of felons polled agreed that "a criminal is not going to mess around with a victim he knows is armed with a gun."28
* 74% of felons polled agreed that "one reason burglars avoid houses when people are at home is that they fear being shot during the crime."29
* 57% of felons polled agreed that "criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police."30
Myth: Gun control in Australia is curbing crime
Fact: Crime has been rising since a sweeping ban on private gun ownership. In the first two
years after gun-owners were forced to surrender 640,381 personal firearms, government statistics
show a dramatic increase in criminal activity. In 2001-2002, homicides were up another
20%.
From the inception of firearm confiscation to March 27, 2000, the numbers are:
• Gun murders up 19%
• Armed robbery up 69%
• Home invasions up 21%
The sad part is that in the 15 years before national gun confiscation:
• Firearm-related homicides dropped nearly 66%
• Firearm-related deaths fell 50%
Fact: Gun crimes are rising throughout Australia after guns were banned. In Sydney alone,
robbery rates with guns rose 160% in 2001, more in the previous year.
yes ill-matic, i agree, your country should be used as an example
Fact: Crime has been rising since a sweeping ban on private gun ownership. In the first two
years after gun-owners were forced to surrender 640,381 personal firearms, government statistics
show a dramatic increase in criminal activity. In 2001-2002, homicides were up another
20%.
From the inception of firearm confiscation to March 27, 2000, the numbers are:
• Gun murders up 19%
• Armed robbery up 69%
• Home invasions up 21%
The sad part is that in the 15 years before national gun confiscation:
• Firearm-related homicides dropped nearly 66%
• Firearm-related deaths fell 50%
Fact: Gun crimes are rising throughout Australia after guns were banned. In Sydney alone,
robbery rates with guns rose 160% in 2001, more in the previous year.
yes ill-matic, i agree, your country should be used as an example
It's a bit of an exaggeration to claim that law abiding citizens would be "suffering" from having to be deprived of firearms. I think it's a small sacrifice to make if it ensures that these sorts of events such as Columbine and now this one are prevented.
You say that you have statistics which illustrate that illegal firearms have seen the emergence of more criminal activities. That's a bit of a small minded approach to take - to say that one issue such as anti- firearm legislation was the SOLE cause of that increase. There are too many factors to consider when making those sorts of statistics, and it's just complete bullshit to use them to imply that "crime has increased because firearms were made illegal".
The issue here is circulation. You introduce legislation to illegalise the firearms and that therefore makes it more difficult to access. The ordinary bank robber, who is already desperate for cash, won't be able to afford any of the firearms smuggled into the black market. And as for gangs and the like, well, if the circulation of firearms is confined to that small minority of society, rather than being openly available to nearly anyone and everyone in your country - then that is a more appropriate reality to have.
"He carried a 9mm semiautomatic and a .22-caliber handgun, both with the serial numbers obliterated, federal law enforcement officials said. "
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/16/AR2007041600533_pf.html
doesnt seem like they were purchased legally
ill-matic i didnt say anything about being the SOLE reason. but you cant deny that these crimes go up drastically after the bans
so its a small sacrafice to see that these things dont happen. how do you prevent a guy who, i think reports are saying now, wasnt a student at the school, not a citizen of this country, from purchasing illegal guns and killing people? how do you stop illegal guns getting into the hands of crazy people? is a ban going to stop illegal guns getting into their hands?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/16/AR2007041600533_pf.html
doesnt seem like they were purchased legally
ill-matic i didnt say anything about being the SOLE reason. but you cant deny that these crimes go up drastically after the bans
so its a small sacrafice to see that these things dont happen. how do you prevent a guy who, i think reports are saying now, wasnt a student at the school, not a citizen of this country, from purchasing illegal guns and killing people? how do you stop illegal guns getting into the hands of crazy people? is a ban going to stop illegal guns getting into their hands?
It's just as easy for me to cough up statistics opposing your stance:
* 1987 saw six gun massacres where 32 innocents were killed by shooters. Although there have been a couple of multiple shootings since 2000 it is probably reasonable to say that the gun massacre phase in Australian history appears to have passed by 1999 : 13 years of tragedy. The US is the only other westernised country to be plagued by repeated gun massacres over several decades. There are no seriously coordinated gun laws in the US in regard to handguns and non-automatic shotguns and rifles. We would argue that this situation arises because US politicians bow to the gun lobby and fail to enact responsible gun laws; several of the present Bush administration being members of the NRA.
* Gun Related Murders per 100,000 of population in 2002 (From Sunday Times)
USA: 4.08
Canada: 0.54
England and Wales: 0.12
Scotland: 0.12
Japan: 0.04
Our calculations show that the figure for Australia is 0.25. This means that approx 16 times more Americans die from gun murders than Australians.
* In the 1970's and till the mid 1980's the Australian figure for total gun deaths from all causes (suicide, homicide, unintentional) was nearly 700. Despite increasing population and almost certainly due to stricter gun controls this figure had been reduced to less than half that figure by the early 2000's - the actual figure for 2003 being 290. This means that today over 400 fewer Australians each year die from gun wounds than one might expect to be the case if the gun lobby had managed to keep Australians in the dark-ages with regard to gun laws.
ofcourse it will, because it's so damned accessible in your country. im not surprised that he got his hands on firearms so easily because he doesn't have to go THAT far to get a hold of them. what are you trying to say here? if you reduce the accessibility then you won't have so many people committing such heinous massacres. i can't believe that you're actually ARGUING against this.
i cant believe you didnt read what i said. the guns he had were illegal. so by all means, tell me how he got them. you say guns are so easy to get in my country please, once again, by all means, tell me how easy it is. please specifiy which state as well since every state has their own laws.
i cant believe you are ignoring the stats that are proving you wrong.
like i keep saying look at other countries for an example. mexico has a ban on guns and has 4 times the murder rate of the u.s.
i cant believe you are ignoring the stats that are proving you wrong.
like i keep saying look at other countries for an example. mexico has a ban on guns and has 4 times the murder rate of the u.s.